Living with Both Pain and Joy, Sorrow and Happiness

An interview with Cholee Gladney, Part 1 by Jess Yusko, LTC Student Partner in Learning and Teaching

The end of Winter Quarter is quickly approaching, and it is time for the monthly newsletter once again. Lunar New Year has come and passed. Daylight savings time will be here this weekend, and the spring equinox later this month. Despite the normal patterns and changes in nature that signal the coming of spring, it feels a little challenging to share something relevant to the learning community right now. I think simply acknowledging this truth can be a healthy, empowering act. Developing awareness of our current thoughts and emotions can be a positive thing in and of
itself.

I realize that I don’t need to preface my article this month by describing the collective anxiety or worry we may feel, as we navigate everyday life amidst the uncertainty of living within a nation at war. Not to mention the many other injustices and oppressions we are grappling with right here in our own cities. When it seems that society is plagued by violence and division arising from racism, hatred, and greed, how can we learn from
one another about ways to resource ourselves?

In a race towards “progress”, the quest for power, and desire for economic domination, we see higher education being devalued. We see both laborers and scholars dehumanized in favor of “machine learning.” Sharing countercultural ideas can be a type of mutual aid, where we learn to care for one another and ourselves, as an act of resistance, in an effort to maintain our own equanimity and well-being.

This month, I had the opportunity to talk with Dean of Equity and Belonging, Cholee Gladney, about the practical applications of mindfulness, embodiment and the ways that joy can be found in the darkest of times and circumstances. It is important that we don’t become overwhelmed by our own thoughts and fears or apathy at times like this, so that we can keep going and supporting the causes we believe in. With that in mind, I hope you find some inspiration in reading this interview.

Jess: Acknowledging that this is a difficult time in society, and most people reading are finding it hard to cope in many
ways.

Considering the current social issues we are facing and the impact on our learning community, the first thing I would like to ask is whether you would like to share some thoughts relating to resilience and hope right now?

Cholee: So, [something]I think a lot about is that part of my ancestry is from Africa and America, the transatlantic slave
route. I think it’s possibly just in my body that my ancestors went through a lot.

I’m not saying it’s more than what you go through or whatever. It’s not a competition. But I think a lot about how, [even] during times of enslavement, there were times of joy; and I think that is what carried people through.

There were families; some of them were intact. Some of them, obviously, were pulled apart. But I just don’t think my own people would have survived if they weren’t also able to access their joy. And so for me, that is really important. So those practices that bring you joy, what makes you laugh, what brings you into comfort and safety.

For me, it’s nature. It’s cozy practices – I love to have tea and those kinds of rituals. I love to laugh, watch funny things, and laugh with my family. The humor is really, really critical. And so, I think it’s about having practices that help you tap into joy.

You know, there’s a lot of guilt that people feel when they are having a joyful moment and someone else is suffering. I have this practice where I say this little phrase, or prayer, (or whatever you want to call it) which is: “May all beings know peace or joy or pleasure or happiness,” when I start to feel that kind of guilt (because I think that’s natural). But I also just think it is what we live with. We live with both.

You know, we live with pain and joy. We live with sorrow and happiness. It’s not ever one or the other. I think it’s our
culture that wants us to think that it’s a binary; and wants to put us in these little boxes. So I really philosophically
believe that we’re all the time experiencing both. My life has kind of taught me that; and I come in as a biracial
person too. So I have both experiences inside of me, of these two different cultures.

And I think that’s maybe one of the most important things I feel like I’m bringing into this work is that there’s a lot of
different experiences that coexist. We’re human. We bring a lot of seemingly disparate, or binary things into the work and into our lives.

Jess: I thank you for sharing your personal philosophy about ways of finding inner resourcefulness; and also the ways of thinking you find helpful for getting through challenging times, which have continuously occurred throughout history, as you mentioned.

Like you said, it can be hard for people to cope with feelings of guilt for even seeking to have pleasurable or joyful
experiences in the midst of so much struggle. We might wonder if we can even feel ok about looking for the good and trying to feel hopeful, while at the same time carrying this sense of awareness that everything is not okay in the world.

Cholee:I also [think it’s important to ask] how can you be okay in yourself, and keep going when you don’t know what’s going to happen? I think that most of what’s really hurting people right now is that fear of the unknown.

This part of our conversation ended with Cholee reflecting upon what she believes are two things that will help us through historically difficult times: the strength of our inner resources and our support systems.

In part two of this interview, we will talk about a different topic: mindfulness and our relational presence to one another in the context of our learning community. I will give you a simple definition of mindfulness to help demystify the topic. Then you will get to read our discussion about the ways you can apply this concept to your work – whether you’re an educator, community organizer, or student. These concepts are for everyone. Developing awareness of the present moment and a more embodied response can have a positive impact on relational equity. Think of the infinite ways this could benefit our interactions with one another as a learning community. Please stay tuned to read more about it in the April issue of our newsletter.

Also, be sure to mark your calendars for the 2026 Equity Symposium, Fires Rising: Igniting Resilient Movements on April 15.